[OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

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[OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

qt next
Hi,

I am a very small company and I am very interested to use a "kinect like" and OpenNi to do some interactive installations or small events. It seems using a kinect is not allowed. Is OpenNi destinated to Big company that plan to resell millions units of camera build on top of primesense and for open source developer that don't plan to resell software ? I have seen that primesense sells development kit : Is it possible to buy this in order to do commercial products with that ? its' perhaps quite off topic but I am trying to find an affordable depth sensor with community support that I can buy on very small quantities and I am a little bit lost :)


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[OpenNI-dev] Re: Commercial use in very small quantities

rickypetit
Hi,

we are on the same situation, any help about this will be great!

Ricard

On 21 Des, 09:36, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am a very small company and I am very interested to use a "kinect like"
> and OpenNi to do some interactive installations or small events. It seems
> using a kinect is not allowed. Is OpenNi destinated to Big company that plan
> to resell millions units of camera build on top of primesense and for open
> source developer that don't plan to resell software ? I have seen that
> primesense sells development kit : Is it possible to buy this in order to do
> commercial products with that ? its' perhaps quite off topic but I am trying
> to find an affordable depth sensor with community support that I can buy on
> very small quantities and I am a little bit lost :)

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Re: [OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

Joshua Blake
In reply to this post by qt next

Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC. They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters and pirates.

OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.

The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.

Thanks,
Josh
OpenKinect Community Founder http://openkinect.org

On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Re: [OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

qt next
Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position from Microsoft about that ..
I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )

2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>

Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC. They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters and pirates.

OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.

The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.

Thanks,
Josh
OpenKinect Community Founder http://openkinect.org

On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Re: [OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

Radamés Ajna
I don't know if there any legal problems, I think about the use o Sony PS3 eye cam and there are some commercial use of this in art installations, interactive installations, etc. However, it being Microsoft involved I'm not sure if is the same or not. Thus, I'm looking forward to see Prime selling easily kits of this camera for general purpose.


Radamés



On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:30 AM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:
Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position from Microsoft about that ..
I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )

2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>

Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC. They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters and pirates.

OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.

The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.

Thanks,
Josh
OpenKinect Community Founder http://openkinect.org

On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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RE: [OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

Tamir Berliner

Hi Radamés,

 

The PrimeSense PSDK 5.0 is for sale to OpenNI community members and the stock is indeed limited.

 

I don’t know what Microsoft is targeting with the Kinect with regards to commercial licenses but I suggest approaching them in order to get clear answers.

 

PrimeSense currently expects the PSDK to be in higher availability starting January 2011 and have new commercial products available down the road during 2011.

 

Please remember that PrimeSense’s business model is selling hardware components, so you probably won’t see a PrimeSense branded camera except for the development kits (which I assume will always be more expensive than the retail products as the PSDKs are not manufactured in high volumes)

 

Hope this helps,

TamirB.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Radamés Ajna
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OpenNI-dev] Commercial use in very small quantities

 

I don't know if there any legal problems, I think about the use o Sony PS3 eye cam and there are some commercial use of this in art installations, interactive installations, etc. However, it being Microsoft involved I'm not sure if is the same or not. Thus, I'm looking forward to see Prime selling easily kits of this camera for general purpose.


Radamés


On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:30 AM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:

Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position from Microsoft about that ..

I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )

2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>

 

Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC. They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters and pirates.

OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.

The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.

Thanks,
Josh
OpenKinect Community Founder http://openkinect.org

On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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[OpenNI-dev] Re: Commercial use in very small quantities

jonas Biensack
In reply to this post by Radamés Ajna
hi,

1. I think the coutry where are you living is important. In germany
you get the full right on something you buy,
when you are not able to agree with some license bevor you buy it (the
license is only visible after openning the package)

2. In the USA it is completly different. You can sell hardware, but
don't allow "hacking" the hardware. In Germany you would ask,
"hey i buy this, i break it, i throw it an a basket, whatever the f**k
i want to do with it...i will do"

3. The only thing I would worry about is, some lisence configuration
that avoid using the kinect for "porno, military or something
else"....if your company
goes in this way...

4. Get an official document from microsoft?!

greetz jones







On 21 Dez., 12:37, Radamés Ajna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't know if there any legal problems, I think about the use o Sony PS3
> eye cam and there are some commercial use of this in art installations,
> interactive installations, etc. However, it being Microsoft involved I'm not
> sure if is the same or not. Thus, I'm looking forward to see Prime selling
> easily kits of this camera for general purpose.
>
> Radamés
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:30 AM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use
> > for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to
> > use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position
> > from Microsoft about that ..
> > I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of
> > small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish
> > possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly
> > viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor
> > available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible
> > when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )
>
> > 2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>
>
> > Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely
> >> available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft
> >> executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC.
> >> They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters
> >> and pirates.
>
> >> OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.
>
> >> The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is
> >> for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Josh
> >> OpenKinect Community Founderhttp://openkinect.org
> >> On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "OpenNI" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to [hidden email].
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> [hidden email]<openni-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/openni-dev?hl=en.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "OpenNI" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to [hidden email].
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > [hidden email]<openni-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -

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Re: [OpenNI-dev] Re: Commercial use in very small quantities

qt next
I am a little lost... and the conclusion for me it's that it's not possible to sell software using openni for commercial application. I have a customer who wants that I add Kinect like interactivity to a software (very small quantities .. custom design)... The customer don't understand why it's not possible to add this and in the same time there is a lot a youtube application of the kinect.. I don't care if the sensor cost two or three the price of a kinect ... I just need a camera available in small quantities where it's clear that I can use it and resell it 
 

2010/12/21 jonas Biensack <[hidden email]>
hi,

1. I think the coutry where are you living is important. In germany
you get the full right on something you buy,
when you are not able to agree with some license bevor you buy it (the
license is only visible after openning the package)

2. In the USA it is completly different. You can sell hardware, but
don't allow "hacking" the hardware. In Germany you would ask,
"hey i buy this, i break it, i throw it an a basket, whatever the f**k
i want to do with it...i will do"

3. The only thing I would worry about is, some lisence configuration
that avoid using the kinect for "porno, military or something
else"....if your company
goes in this way...

4. Get an official document from microsoft?!

greetz jones







On 21 Dez., 12:37, Radamés Ajna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't know if there any legal problems, I think about the use o Sony PS3
> eye cam and there are some commercial use of this in art installations,
> interactive installations, etc. However, it being Microsoft involved I'm not
> sure if is the same or not. Thus, I'm looking forward to see Prime selling
> easily kits of this camera for general purpose.
>
> Radamés
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:30 AM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use
> > for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to
> > use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position
> > from Microsoft about that ..
> > I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of
> > small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish
> > possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly
> > viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor
> > available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible
> > when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )
>
> > 2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>
>
> > Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely
> >> available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft
> >> executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC.
> >> They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters
> >> and pirates.
>
> >> OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.
>
> >> The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is
> >> for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Josh
> >> OpenKinect Community Founderhttp://openkinect.org
> >> On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "OpenNI" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to [hidden email].
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> [hidden email]<openni-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/openni-dev?hl=en.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "OpenNI" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to [hidden email].
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Re: [OpenNI-dev] Re: Commercial use in very small quantities

Bertrand Nouvel
Hi,

IMHO, the situation is still very unclear, and it would be good that Microsoft and
PrimeSense provide clear answers to these very important interrogations and needs.

To deal with this issue, we are currently developing a new OpenNI driver to support a time-of-flight camera.
The price and the capabilities are different from those of kinect but the selling conditions are more clear.

You may contact us directly, if you'd like to know more about the device and the development of the OpenNi driver.

Best,

Bertrand

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:03 PM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a little lost... and the conclusion for me it's that it's not possible to sell software using openni for commercial application. I have a customer who wants that I add Kinect like interactivity to a software (very small quantities .. custom design)... The customer don't understand why it's not possible to add this and in the same time there is a lot a youtube application of the kinect.. I don't care if the sensor cost two or three the price of a kinect ... I just need a camera available in small quantities where it's clear that I can use it and resell it 
 

2010/12/21 jonas Biensack <[hidden email]>

hi,

1. I think the coutry where are you living is important. In germany
you get the full right on something you buy,
when you are not able to agree with some license bevor you buy it (the
license is only visible after openning the package)

2. In the USA it is completly different. You can sell hardware, but
don't allow "hacking" the hardware. In Germany you would ask,
"hey i buy this, i break it, i throw it an a basket, whatever the f**k
i want to do with it...i will do"

3. The only thing I would worry about is, some lisence configuration
that avoid using the kinect for "porno, military or something
else"....if your company
goes in this way...

4. Get an official document from microsoft?!

greetz jones







On 21 Dez., 12:37, Radamés Ajna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't know if there any legal problems, I think about the use o Sony PS3
> eye cam and there are some commercial use of this in art installations,
> interactive installations, etc. However, it being Microsoft involved I'm not
> sure if is the same or not. Thus, I'm looking forward to see Prime selling
> easily kits of this camera for general purpose.
>
> Radamés
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 7:30 AM, qt next <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Regarding the Kinect, It's quite unclear : I am sure that it's ok to use
> > for personnal use and demo on Youtube ... but I haven't read that it's ok to
> > use Kinect on a commercial product on a PC : There is no official position
> > from Microsoft about that ..
> > I hopes that there will more options in 2011 ...  I am sure that a lot of
> > small companies have the same problem I have : There is astonish
> > possibilities and things to do with this kind of sensor, but no clearly
> > viable commercial options to resell this sensor ( I have find some sensor
> > available to resell but at ten times the prices ... so it's not possible
> > when somebody can buy the same kind of sensor in any shop at 200 € )
>
> > 2010/12/21 Joshua Blake <[hidden email]>
>
> > Why do you say that using Kinect is not allowed? Kinect is widely
> >> available, inexpensive, and has a lot of community support. Microsoft
> >> executives have said no one will get in trouble for using Kinect on the PC.
> >> They're primarily worried about keeping the Xbox platform safe from cheaters
> >> and pirates.
>
> >> OpenNI and NITE are usable for commercial purposes for free.
>
> >> The PSDK is for sale in limited quantites and you cannot resell it. It is
> >> for test and evaluation only. There will likely be more options in 2011.
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Josh
> >> OpenKinect Community Founderhttp://openkinect.org
> >> On Dec 21, 2010 3:37 AM, "qt next" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "OpenNI" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to [hidden email].
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> [hidden email]<openni-dev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/openni-dev?hl=en.
>
> >  --
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>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -

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